In 2006, John Muhammad and Lee Boyd Malvo confront one another for the final time in the Maryland trials. Investigators also learn more about the pair’s initial plans. And a date is set for Muhammad’s execution.


Narrator (00:00):

Welcome to Monster: DC Sniper, a production of iHeartRadio and Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the podcast author or individuals participating in the podcast and do not represent those of iHeartMedia, Tenderfoot TV, or their employees.

Narrator (00:18):

This episode includes testimony and argument from trial transcripts, read by voice actors. Portions of these transcripts are excerpted for the purposes of this podcast. Listener discretion is advised.

Tom Walsh (00:32):

We won. We won.

Narrator (00:34):

That’s Malvo’s defense attorney, Tom Walsh.

Tom Walsh (00:37):

I remember standing in court when that verdict came in, standing right beside him, and that was it. That was it. We won. If you understood the case, it was basically just two outcomes. They win, they get death. We win, he gets life, and when they came back on December 23rd with life, that was it.

Speaker 1 (00:54):

Teenage sniper Lee Malvo escaped the death penalty less than a month after his older partner, John Muhammad, was handed the ultimate punishment. Victims and their families were stunned.

Speaker 3 (01:05):

When people heard the judge say, “Life without parole,” people screamed out as if he was acquitted. I understood the emotion those people had, because they thought justice would be the same penalty that Muhammad got.

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Speaker 2 (01:20):

That boy, he’s not going to change. He’s not going to change his mind. He’s not going to change his heart. What’s that’s the point to have that guy in jail? He’s a monster. I don’t expect anything from him. I just expect for him not to have a good life, because he doesn’t deserve a good life.

Speaker 4 (01:40):

Ultimately, the Chesapeake jury found him guilty of capital murder, and they gave him life. Chesapeake has never given anybody the death penalty, but that’s the way it is, and I believe in the jury system. If your neighbors think you shouldn’t get death, then that’s the way he goes. Personally, I think he should have. He knew exactly what he was doing.

Speaker 5 (02:00):

Malvo’s sitting in Red Onion Prison. It’s one of the nation’s supermaxes. It’s a very stark facility. He’s spending 23 hours a day in a very small cell. He has no physical interaction with any other inmates, and, barring some outcome from the resentencing, he will likely be there for the rest of his life.

Speaker 3 (02:22):

I was okay with life without parole. Now we’re dealing with this situation where maybe someday he will walk the streets again. Having grandchildren, do I want to take the gamble that in their lifetime he will walk the streets and take the gamble that he’s going to be fine and not revert back to something crazy?

Speaker 6 (02:49):

There is a ruthless person on the loose.

Speaker 7 (02:51):

What unnerves this community the most is the randomness of the murders. Ordinary people doing ordinary things.

Speaker 6 (02:59):

They killed the five people in one day and then went on the rampage for the next month.

Speaker 8 (03:04):

It is quite a mystery. The police say they have never had a crime quite like this.

Speaker 9 (03:09):

Be careful. These guys are using weapons that are going to go right straight through our bulletproof vests.

Speaker 10 (03:14):

There’s a white van just went by with two guys in it.

Narrator (03:14):

From iHeartRadio and Tinderfoot TV, this is Monster: DC Sniper.

Narrator (03:29):

Lee Boyd Malvo was sent to Red Onion State Prison in the western part of Virginia, where he would serve his life sentence. Red Onion is one of the strictest supermax prisons in the country. After he was incarcerated, he started talking to people about what had happened, and the details he provided changed the case in ways that no one anticipated. One of the people he talked to was Anthony Meoli, the criminologist who helped Malvo write his autobiography.

Anthony Meoli (03:58):

What we know as the DC snipers is really the United States snipers. They shot people from Washington to Arizona to, allegedly, Florida, South Carolina, North Carolina. So there’s a lot of people shot in many, many different states, according to Lee’s own words.

Narrator (04:21):

Investigators had continued to look into other crimes that they thought might be connected to the pair. One crime they investigated was the death of Jerry Taylor. He’d been shot with a rifle while golfing in Tucson, Arizona on March 19th, 2002. His body had been found in the bushes with his wallet nearby on the ground, but, strangely, his money and credit cards weren’t missing.

Narrator (04:44):

Investigators had learned Muhammad and Malvo were in the area at the time, visiting Muhammad’s sister. This was the same trip where they stole a credit card from a Greyhound bus driver. Later, they would ask that $10 million be deposited on that card. But Taylor hadn’t been shot by a 223 rifle like the Bushmaster that Malvo and Mohammad had used in their DC attacks, but, rather, a 301-caliber rifle. Still, the shootings resembled the random killings of the DC sniper attacks, and the fact that Malvo and Muhammad were in the area when it happened seemed like too big of a coincidence. So now that Malvo appeared to be talking, investigators from the Tucson Police Department went to interview him.

Detective Jimenez (05:28):

This is Detective Jimenez, Tucson Police Department. Going over our file, we know that you were in Tucson in early March of 2002. Can you tell me how you and I believe it was John Muhammad got to Tucson?

Lee Boyd Malvo (05:43):

We got to Tucson by Greyhound from Tacoma, Washington.

Detective Jimenez (05:46):

Did he tell you, when you got on the bus coming to Tucson, that this was a job you were going to do? How did he phrase it? I don’t what to put words in your mouth.

Lee Boyd Malvo (05:55):

“We’re going know Tucson. We’re going to see my sister, and this is what we’re going to do. We’re going to do a job.”

Detective Jimenez (06:02):

Did he tell you how much money he was paid to do this job?

Lee Boyd Malvo (06:06):

$25,000 to start.

Detective Jimenez (06:10):

You brought your sniper gear down from Washington state?

Lee Boyd Malvo (06:14):


Detective Jimenez (06:15):

How did you know he was a golfer?

Lee Boyd Malvo (06:16):

We had an address, and he had some additional information in the envelope. It’s one sheet of paper with writing on the back and front.

Detective Jimenez (06:22):

Did you know anything about the guy?

Lee Boyd Malvo (06:24):

The only thing he showed me was the picture. I wasn’t allowed to read anything.

Detective Jimenez (06:27):

Did John ever tell you why this guy had to die?

Lee Boyd Malvo (06:31):


Detective Jimenez (06:31):

You had a job to do?

Lee Boyd Malvo (06:32):

Yes. We have an address we were going to. We got there in the morning. We walk the area and look at what’s in there. There’s houses, and there’s a golf course at the back. We go up there, and we’re looking for the guy in the picture. I spot the man, and what he does is, after hitting the ball for a couple hours, he comes down the slope and picks up all the balls with a machine.

Detective Jimenez (06:59):

How many days would you say you spent at the golf course, hiding and watching this particular man?

Lee Boyd Malvo (07:06):

Probably three days in total.

Detective Jimenez (07:09):

The day that this guy has shot, how do you get out there in the morning?

Lee Boyd Malvo (07:13):

That evening, he says, “You have to do this.” I said, no, because I had never done this before. He said, “You’re going out there and doing this.”

Detective Jimenez (07:20):

Was this the first time you shot and killed somebody? But it was the first time you shot and killed somebody with this rifle?

Lee Boyd Malvo (07:27):

Yes. That evening, as soon as we talk, I have to go back out there and [inaudible 00:07:34] and stay out there and prepare in the night.

Detective Jimenez (07:37):

Where do you have the rifle?

Lee Boyd Malvo (07:38):

The rifle’s in the case and in the green duffle bag that goes in my bag.

Detective Jimenez (07:42):

So you have the duffle bag on the bus, and the rifle’s in a case inside the duffle bag?

Lee Boyd Malvo (07:47):


Detective Jimenez (07:48):

Did you ever get questioned? Anybody ever …

Lee Boyd Malvo (07:50):

Looking at the bag, you wouldn’t really question. It’s like a camper’s bag.

Detective Jimenez (07:53):

What kind of rifle was it?

Lee Boyd Malvo (07:55):

It’s a 308. Nine inches was cut off the original barrel so that it would fit easily within the bag, and there was a temporary [inaudible 00:08:03].

Detective Jimenez (08:03):

Where did you get that weapon?

Lee Boyd Malvo (08:05):

The weapon was bought by Earl Dancy.

Detective Jimenez (08:07):

So you get there the night before?

Lee Boyd Malvo (08:09):

Yes, because I know he picks up golf balls. I put golf balls on this slope.

Detective Jimenez (08:14):

So you’re setting the balls to draw him to the area where you want him to be?

Lee Boyd Malvo (08:17):

Once he sees those, basically the bait, he goes after.

Narrator (08:21):

Malvo says that he wore camouflage clothes and hid under a tree, covering himself with a net and branches. He camped out all night so he’d be in position the next day when Jerry Taylor went golfing.

Detective Jimenez (08:34):

All right. So when does the guy show up?

Lee Boyd Malvo (08:35):

Between 12:30 and 1:00.

Detective Jimenez (08:38):

Had he hit any balls prior to coming down to that area, the sloped area?

Lee Boyd Malvo (08:43):

The thing is, where I was, I couldn’t move to get up and see him, but I knew he was going to come down, and that’s the one I’m waiting on, because he’s the one that always does it. He does it the last two days, comes down the slope and picks up all the balls.

Detective Jimenez (08:57):

All right. So you’re there, waiting. He goes down and starts picking up balls.

Lee Boyd Malvo (09:01):

He came close to me. He walked by and picked up the first ball and then went around. I’m right here, and he’s right here.

Detective Jimenez (09:09):

So there’s six feet [crosstalk 00:09:10]?

Lee Boyd Malvo (09:11):

Yes, he’s a little bit above me, because I’m down at the ground.

Detective Jimenez (09:14):

So in a traditional military sniper position? You’re laying on the ground?

Lee Boyd Malvo (09:16):

Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

Detective Jimenez (09:18):

All right. Is this a rifle with a scope?

Lee Boyd Malvo (09:19):


Detective Jimenez (09:19):

So you had him in your sights?

Lee Boyd Malvo (09:21):

Yes. Then he came back and was coming back up the slope. That’s when he was shot. He fell, lays down, and there’s no movement. I started to pack up. Then he got back up and started walking, and he starts going up the slope. He didn’t die immediately, and I had to go out there and get him. Once I got him, I pulled him here.

Detective Jimenez (09:52):

So you went after him, and you grabbed him and drug him down?

Lee Boyd Malvo (09:56):


Detective Jimenez (09:58):

Okay. Does he say anything to you?

Lee Boyd Malvo (10:05):

He was saying something to me.

Detective Jimenez (10:08):

He was saying something to you? Do you remember what he said?

Lee Boyd Malvo (10:15):

It was basically groans, because it was like something filling up his mouth, and so it was just groans. But you could tell he was trying to say something.

Detective Jimenez (10:22):

Was he looking at you?

Lee Boyd Malvo (10:22):

He was trying to, yes.

Detective Jimenez (10:28):

Okay. So you drag him into the bushes?

Lee Boyd Malvo (10:29):


Detective Jimenez (10:30):

Drag by the arms, the legs?

Lee Boyd Malvo (10:32):

The legs.

Detective Jimenez (10:32):

The legs?

Lee Boyd Malvo (10:32):


Detective Jimenez (10:34):

You take his wallet?

Lee Boyd Malvo (10:36):

I take the wallet, look at the picture, and drop the wallet. The bag was not far from there. It was laying under a boulder. Pulled it out, put the [inaudible 00:10:43], close it up, and put it in the bag, go out to the bus stop.

Detective Jimenez (10:50):

You get to the bus stop. What do you do?

Lee Boyd Malvo (10:53):

I get to the bus stop. I sit beside him, and I’m jittery. He says, “Calm down. No one knows you done anything.”

Detective Jimenez (11:02):

How old were you at the time?

Lee Boyd Malvo (11:03):


Detective Jimenez (11:10):

17 years old at the time? Now that this all is done and you’ve been through a lot in the last couple of years with these proceedings, why are you even talking to us?

Lee Boyd Malvo (11:20):

I’m talking to you because I’m sorry, sorry for what I did.

Detective Jimenez (11:21):

Is there something you want to say to the family?

Lee Boyd Malvo (11:25):

You can’t bring him back. I’m sorry.

Detective Jimenez (11:37):

Thank you very much. We’re going to go back to Tucson tomorrow morning, and we’re going to have to talk to the family. We’re going to have to tell the family that somebody that knew this man wanted him dead, and this is going to be terrible news for them.

Narrator (11:53):

According to the Arizona Daily Star newspaper, police had no doubt that Malvo killed Taylor, but Taylor’s daughter, Cheryll Witz, said she couldn’t imagine anyone wanting to hurt her father, and police never found evidence to support Malvo’s claim that it was a hired killing. So was Malvo lying, or did Muhammad’s underworld dealings extend beyond smuggling people across borders? Was he working as a hitman as well? Or maybe Muhammad lied to Malvo, and this was part of how he groomed Malvo for the DC attacks. Anthony Meoli, the criminologist who helped publish Malvo’s autobiography, says Malvo never mentioned any contract killings to him.

Anthony Meoli (12:36):

The idea that this was a contract hit, to me, is total hogwash, but Lee also referenced the fact that he shot 36 people. Lee himself shot 36 people and killed over 20 of them. He also said that John shot as many as 70 people. Now, I don’t know how true that is, but he said, “I wouldn’t put it past him that he shot that many people because he was always out, doing bad things.”

Narrator (13:05):

Malveaux told Meoli that, during the time he started killing people with Muhammad, he believed deeply in the Nation of Islam-based philosophy that Muhammad had been teaching him. Muhammad had him eating only a single small vegetarian meal a day and would give him 72 different vitamins and supplements. Malvo might have been even more of a true believer than Muhammad. Malvo said shortly after Muhammad had him shoot Keenya Cook in Tacoma, he confronted Muhammad about inconsistencies he was seeing. Muhammad had been telling him that the white man was the devil, but he was dating a white woman.

Lee Boyd Malvo (13:41):

He was in a relationship with this white lady. “You taught me all this Nation of Islam stuff. What are you doing with this white woman? I mean, I came out here to help you get your children back. I mean, you just had me blow somebody’s brains out. What’s up?”

Lee Boyd Malvo (13:53):

So a week or two after the first shooting, he came out of the YMC. We had an F-150 we were driving at time, and I sat behind him. I had a 45 in his back. I said, “Look, you called me out here, and you said, ‘I need to get my children back.’ That’s why I’m here. You can’t talk the white man’s the devil, and then you meet this woman. It’s either your kids or her. Make your mind up, and make your mind up right now, before I put two rounds in you. There’s some quarters on the dashboard, so pick those quarters up. You’re going to step out the truck, walk to the phone, make the call and say it’s over, and that’s a wrap. I need to hear it.”

Speaker 11 (14:30):

You had actually, at that moment, bought entirely into his plan.

Lee Boyd Malvo (14:33):

Yes, but the plan, as far as I was concerned, was make money along the way. Find the kids. Take them. Go to Canada. Go to flight school, and do what you want to do. That was the layout. It changed along the way.

Narrator (14:50):

Malvo says Muhammad had put together a list of cities with people named Mildred Muhammad in them. He says they began traveling across the country, searching for Muhammad’s ex-wife and his kids. They first stopped in Los Angeles in February.

PART 1 OF 4 ENDS [00:15:04]

Speaker 12 (15:03):

Ex wife and his kids. They first stopped in Los Angeles in February or March of 2002, where they shot a man. Details about this killing are sparse and the victim has never been matched up with the alleged crime. Malvo says they went on to shoot and kill Jerry Taylor in Arizona in March. Then Malvo said they continued East, and a couple of months later, Muhammad shot another man at a golf course in Florida.

Speaker 12 (15:27):

Investigators connected this to the mysterious shooting of 76 year old Albert Michaelsick. Michaelsick was shot while golfing in Clearwater, Florida on May 18th of that year. Malvo also confessed to involvement in the May 27th shooting of Billy Jean Dylan in Denton, Texas. Dylan was murdered while doing yard work, but Malvo told Miele that he and Muhammad committed so many crimes that they all started to blur together.

Malveaux (15:56):

I mean, if it went somewhere for a week, someone would get either robbed or something was going to get pulled, there was going to be some violence. It got to the point where he said, “I created a fucking monster.” During this time, he got several nervous breakdowns, and each time he came out of all his need to blood let would be greater and greater. The need for violence would be greater and greater. It would just escalate. Even though I battled with train and I was on the train that I would detach.

Speaker 12 (16:25):

After the Denton, Texas murder. Malvo says he and Muhammad then traveled to a gun show in El Paso, Texas where Malvo stole the 22 revolver they would later use to shoot Paul LaRuffa. Then they went to Hammond, Louisiana, where they crossed paths with a man named John Gatta.

John Gatta (16:42):

It was a normal day. I went to work and I went home and I was going to return to work to catch up on some stuff and I decided before I did that I would stop at the mall. Hammond square and do some shopping. I did so and I made a purchase and then I came out and I went to drive away and I noticed that I had a flat tire.

John Gatta (17:13):

I could have driven just a little short piece to a service station that’s right in front of the mall, but I just parked my truck. That night, it was dark of course. You have the parking lot lighting. I was just assessing the situation and I was getting some tools out. There were two black men that walked right by me. They said, “It looks like you have a flat tire.” And they kind of laughed under their breath. And they asked me if the mall was open. Well I knew it was closing, but just to buy myself more time, just make sure they weren’t up to something. I said, “Ah, it might be.” I said, “You could check.” Something to that effect. I didn’t see where they came from or where they went and I went to the back of my vehicle because that’s where you would retrieve the spare tire and I saw a figure hunched over and running from the back of my vehicle to the front.

John Gatta (18:17):

And I’m like, “Okay, well I’m not ready for this.” And I thought I’ll just go to the other side of the vehicle and say, “What do you want?” So I went around to the passenger side of the vehicle and when I did, Malvo met me face to face. He was about maybe six feet away.

John Gatta (18:42):

Before I had a moment to think about anything. I don’t even know if I ever got out, “What do you want?” He just raised a pistol and shot me. I thought he was aiming for my head but the bullet struck me on the right side of my neck. I just remember falling to the ground. I just felt like the safest thing of the day was just lay there for a few minutes.

John Gatta (19:14):

I don’t remember feeling that they were reaching in my pockets. I noticed my wallet was missing. Without thinking that I might have a spinal injury or anything, I was going to walk to the service station and just call for help. Before I did, there were some people like passers by and so they came up and they said, “Sir, you’re bleeding, are you okay?” And I kind of looked at my shirt and there was blood on my shirt and at that time I heard the ambulance siren. They took me to the hospital and they treated me. The doctor said that when he got the call he said, “Well, this guy is going to come in either paralyzed or dead.” The bullet had entered my neck. It traveled from the right side of my neck to the left side of my upper back, crossing the spinal cord without doing any damage. I felt like I could just have went back to work that next day. I don’t want missing work and my friends said, “No, at least take the weekend or a week or whatever.” When my vehicle was brought to the provider who was going to fix the tire, they noticed that the puncture on the tire was on the sidewall. If you get a flat tire, it’s on the treads, but in this case it was like the tire was purposely slashed so I would not be able to drive off.

Speaker 12 (20:46):

Malvo and Muhammad then traveled to Baton Rouge, Louisiana, Muhammad’s hometown. Friends and relatives said it seemed like he was going out of his way to talk and visit with people he hadn’t seen in years. He lied to people, telling them he was still married to Mildred, that he was doing well and that he owned houses in Canada and the Caribbean. And it was here that Malvo says Muhammad first told him about his plan for the DC attacks.

Speaker 12 (21:16):

Muhammad had a plan that would have extended far beyond the horrors of October, 2002, if they hadn’t been stopped. In 2006 Muhammad, who was already on death row in Virginia, was prosecuted in Montgomery County, Maryland for the six murders that took place there. Malvo was prosecuted as well, but he pled guilty and agreed to testify against Muhammad and share new details about the case, including John’s full plan. There are excerpts from Muhammad’s Maryland trial, with prosecutor Katherine Winfrey questioning Malvo. Winfrey and Malvo’s quotes are read by voice actors.

Winfrey (22:15):

Now, did he go back to Louisiana in mid July of 2002?

Speaker 13 (22:19):


Winfrey (22:19):

Now when you were with him, what would the two of you do?

Speaker 13 (22:22):

We would visit people he was dealing with at the time.

Winfrey (22:25):

Did you feel like a member of the family?

Speaker 13 (22:27):


Winfrey (22:28):

Did you come to love Mr Muhammad?

Speaker 13 (22:31):


Winfrey (22:32):

Did you tell him you loved him?

Speaker 13 (22:34):


Winfrey (22:35):

And how about his feelings for you? Did he tell you that he loved you?

Speaker 13 (22:38):


Winfrey (22:40):

Did you believe that?

Speaker 13 (22:42):


Winfrey (22:44):

And did there come a time that Mr Muhammad told you he had learned where his children were?

Speaker 13 (22:49):

Yes, we were in Baton Rouge at his brother’s place. We were across the street in a gully sitting on a log. He told me the children are in Maryland, just outside DC and he explained that we’re not going to get the children, not yet. He explained to me what was going to happen after we left Louisiana. He said we were going to go to the Washington DC area and we’re going to terrorize these people. Every day, there are going to be six shots, six slayings a day for 30 days.

Winfrey (23:21):

And after the 30 days, what was going to happen?

Speaker 13 (23:24):

Phase two was to create much more damage by using improvised explosives. We had ball bearings or nails. Usually what I was told was we get schools, school buses, hospitals, children’s hospitals, everything is around children.

Speaker 12 (23:39):

Malvo later elaborated on Muhammad’s plan. When he spoke to Miele from prison,

Malveaux (23:44):

We’re in Baton Rouge I think either July or he explained to me that we’re going to go to DC and we’re going to terrorize these mother fuckers, those were his words. And we’re just going to go into that region and just wreak havoc and shut it down, because all these people care about is their fucking money.

Malveaux (24:02):

And if you disturb that process and let people know that they’re not safe anywhere, any time, their system is no longer viable. So when he explained it to me, I said, “Listen man, we’ve been robbing and I’ve been doing what you ask me to do. And we made, X amount of money. You have the passports, you have the contacts, we know where the children are. Why not just get them and leave? I mean that’s the whole story. I mean, what’s this?” He’s like, “No. I’m going to get back at these mother fuckers for what they did to me, I’m going to kill two birds with one stone. I’m going to get my children and we going to terrorize them. They’re going to know what they have done.”

Speaker 12 (24:39):

In the Maryland trial, prosecutor Winfrey asked Melville about what happened next.

Winfrey (24:45):

What did you do after he told you about this plan to terrorize?

Speaker 13 (24:49):

He was gone during the day after he told this to me. I sat in the bathroom, played Russian roulette for several hours with the 22 revolver. I loaded one round, spun, put it to my head, fire, fire, fire until I reached the fourth round. And then I realized this was the round. And I just broke down, I couldn’t do it.

Winfrey (25:16):

Now from Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Did you return to come to Washington?

Speaker 13 (25:20):


Winfrey (25:21):

And while you were there, did you steal a .223 Bushmaster high powered rifle?

Speaker 13 (25:25):

Yes. From bullseye. It’s a gun shop.

Winfrey (25:29):

Now. Did there come a time in late August of 2002, that you and John Allen Muhammad left to come to Washington DC?

Speaker 13 (25:35):

Yes. We came to Clinton, Maryland first to scope out where his wife and children was. At first, he sent me to go knock on the door to see if it’s his wife. I went, knocked, she was sitting in the living room watching television. I recognized her face based on pictures that I’ve seen earlier. I returned and told Muhammad, “Yes, that’s her residence.” Then there’s an area with the fence directly across the street. From there, I’d watch when she left. Who came there? What did the children do? When did they leave? Basically surveillance.

Winfrey (26:12):

And did Mr Muhammad take his children during that time?

Speaker 13 (26:15):

No, he said, “Not yet. Not yet.” Mr Muhammad had several looks when he said, “Not yet.” Accompanied with that look, it meant its final. Didn’t ask him any more questions.

Winfrey (26:28):

Whenever he spoke about his wife, what were the emotions that he displayed?

Speaker 13 (26:32):

You could tell he was uncomfortable with her having his children. He was angry.

Winfrey (26:37):

Did Mr Muhammad ever discuss September 11th with you?

Speaker 13 (26:40):

Yes. He said bloodshed begets bloodshed. It’s a process and America begun this. Osama bin Ladin didn’t develop in a vacuum. They trained him. They taught him to fight the Soviets and it came home. He hated this country. He hates this country.

Winfrey (26:58):

Did he tell you why he hates this country?

Speaker 13 (27:01):

Slavery, the hypocrisy, their foreign policy. Just the entirety of the nation.

Speaker 12 (27:08):

Malvo said that after confirming that Mildred and the kids were living in Clinton, Maryland, Muhammad had him rob Paul LaRuffa outside his restaurant. And then with LaRuffa’s money, they went to New Jersey to buy the blue capris. Malvo says they then drove to the Southeast so they could modify and test out the car outside of the DC area.

Winfrey (27:28):

What was the reason you stopped a Montgomery, Alabama?

Speaker 13 (27:31):

The modifications were fully made. He wanted to test them. We found an ABC liquor store. There’s a car wash across the street. I sat there, pretended to read the ArmaLite gun magazine. I had two jobs, to see when it’s all over if I could tell where the shot was coming from, and my main goal was to be the pickup man. I was supposed to run, pick up the bag and then head directly to the pickup spot.

Winfrey (27:58):

Now what happened after Mr Muhammad fired the two shots?

Speaker 13 (28:01):

I went to the front of the ABC. The two women were laying on the ground. The black lady was on her back and there was blood around her head. The white lady was laying, there was blood on the concrete around her body. Both of them were not moving.

Speaker 13 (28:19):

I was frantically looking for the bag, because I know I only have so much time. I grabbed something I can’t remember exactly. Once I grabbed it, I heard, “Freeze.” And I took off. The officer was running behind me. I jumped the fence and jumped another fence, then went into the car and then went directly on the highway and left.

Winfrey (28:40):

Now, at some point did you head back North?

Speaker 13 (28:42):

Yes. We drove all the way up to Montgomery County to begin the shootings.

Winfrey (28:47):

Why this area? Why Montgomery County?

Speaker 13 (28:50):

He said it was middle-class, well-off, mostly whites, that it was a perfect area to terrorize.

Winfrey (28:57):

And who would choose which actual shooting you would do and which one Mr Muhammad would do?

Speaker 13 (29:02):

Mr Muhammad would make the choice.

Winfrey (29:04):

May I direct your attention to Wednesday, October 2nd of 2002, about six o’clock in the evening. Did you and Mr Muhammad go to the Shoppers Food Warehouse?

Speaker 13 (29:14):

Yes, we went to the YMCA on Wednesday morning. Then that evening, that’s when everything began. That’s when he said, “Today’s going to be the first shot.”

Winfrey (29:24):

Who was driving the car?

Speaker 13 (29:26):

He would drive in areas like this because I did not have a license.

Winfrey (29:30):

And then what happened after he parked the car?

Speaker 13 (29:32):

He stepped over his driver’s seat, went into the back and entered the trunk.

Winfrey (29:37):

What was your role? You’re sitting in the front seat. What’s your job?

Speaker 13 (29:41):

Make sure there’s no one walking by on the sidewalk and there are no cars stopped.

Winfrey (29:46):

And did you see his target, Mr Malvo?

Speaker 13 (29:49):

An elderly white male and a Brown suit. And once I told him he had to go, the shot was taken.

Winfrey (29:57):

What happened after Mr Muhammad shot Mr. Martin?

Speaker 13 (30:00):

He fell. Mr Muhammad came up-

PART 2 OF 4 ENDS [00:30:04]

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (30:03):

He fell. Mr Muhammad came up. I went into the back, disassembled the weapon.

Speaker 14 (30:08):

Do you remember where you went after Mr. Muhammad shot Mr. Martin?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (30:11):


Speaker 14 (30:13):

Was there a plan for the next day?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (30:15):

Yes. We were supposed to get at least five shootings, possibly six.

Speaker 15 (30:24):

Malvo later told Meoli that things didn’t go exactly as planned or at least things deviated from the plan that Muhammad had been telling Malvo.

Anthony Meoli (30:33):

Suddenly their plan went from shooting five Caucasians to now basically shooting five of any human being. Obviously, it’s easier to shoot people of multiple cultures because there’s more people around. It would also, if only whites were being shot, it might’ve been easier to develop a profile that our shooters are African American.

Speaker 15 (30:56):

Here’s more of Meoli interview with Malvo.

Anthony Meoli (30:59):

Did you think that John was racist towards whites at all?

Lee Malvo (31:03):

Yeah. Absolutely. I mean in Nation of Islam philosophy, the white man is the devil.

Anthony Meoli (31:08):

So if he was preaching racist idealism and the hatred of whites, why would other races be targeted during the beltway shootings?

Lee Malvo (31:19):

You’ve seen The Matrix. There is a scene in which Morpheus is training Neo when they’re walking in the street. He says everyone is a part of the system. So as far as Muhammad was concerned, if you are participating in the system, you are an enemy. And the system is the white economic system that the whites have created as a system of control and have convinced every other nation or people on the planet that this is the system to adopt, this is the way to go.

Anthony Meoli (31:44):

And after the very first day of shooting in the beltway sniper shootings as we know them, Lee realized emotionally he could not do this. It was too much for him to do, which is why after the first day there was a bit of a drop off. So the plan went off the rails. Even from day one. We didn’t realize it was going off the rails, but according to Lee, it was.

Speaker 15 (32:08):

And Meoli says that the latter phases of the plan were even more sadistic than what Malvo described in the Maryland courtroom.

Anthony Meoli (32:16):

Phase two was even worse. The original phase two was supposed to take place in Baltimore, Maryland, and they were going to shoot a pregnant woman. The reason why that shooting was going to be so horrific was the nation would say, wow, these people do not care at all. The idea was that when they started to investigate the case, they were going to kill one of the Baltimore police officers.

Lee Malvo (32:41):

He would have me walk up to the officer, ask him a question, shoot him in his forehead, cut his head off and leave it on the seat. That’s going to [inaudible 00:32:49] outrage, the mayor, the governor, a lot of people were going to come out, the entire police department. We knew where they bury the officers. He was going to take explosive devices, which he had, which he made and he was going to lay them.

Anthony Meoli (33:02):

They were going to use improvised explosive devices at the funeral and while they were going off they would wait a few minutes and then use them again when first responders arrived.

Lee Malvo (33:15):

It was going to be the immediate policing gathering, basically [inaudible 00:33:19] police department and then there were going to be secondary devices for the ambulances and fire trucks and everybody who responds after that.

Anthony Meoli (33:29):

As if that wasn’t bad enough, when the phase three began, they would extort money from the government. They were going to say, you can’t stop us from doing this and we want $10 million.

Lee Malvo (33:51):

The third phase is disappear and take children like myself and train them and then release them at the door and replicate the process in different ways.

Speaker 15 (33:54):

But Malvo told me only the plan quickly fall apart because Malvo couldn’t emotionally handle what Muhammad was asking him to do.

Anthony Meoli (34:01):

Lee lined up the pregnant woman, but he decided he couldn’t shoot her. So really phase one and phase two never happened simply because Lee could not do it. His conscience would not allow him to do it. So if John tried to develop a killer who had no moral compunctions whatsoever, he was unable to do it. Lee, for some reason, drew the line at killing a pregnant woman. He was willing to shoot a 13-year-old child going to school, but he was not willing to kill a pregnant woman.

Speaker 15 (34:33):

And Meoli doesn’t buy that the shootings were strongly motivated by the Nation of Islam ideology. Meoli thinks Muhammad and Malvo were just angry in escalating their murder spree.

Anthony Meoli (34:44):

Were are the beltway sniper shootings this alleged brainwashing job that needed to get done in order to rid the system of whites when none of that panned out or was it a case where a man who was angry and spiraling out of control emotionally along with a self hating, angry young man started shooting random targets for their own personal satisfaction? Nothing went along with the plan. Nothing went along with the phases and nothing seemed to go along with the belief system. So that’s why I have trouble believing in this whole indoctrination because the killings don’t jive with that story.

Anthony Meoli (35:30):

It doesn’t make sense. In my opinion, they were unraveling.

Anthony Meoli (35:38):

We often see this in whether it’s serial shooters or spree shooters or even serial killers. When killers have a compulsion to kill, eventually they start making mistakes because their compulsion overrides not only common sense, but their criminal intellect as smart as they were when they began their plan. They start making mistakes. They start leaving clues. In this case, they even start leaving tarot cards. Handwriting is traceable. They leave voices. Eventually, Malvo’s fingerprint is tracked. So eventually things do unravel, but that’s usually what we see in these cases is the killers start to get sloppy and they start to get emotionally worn and these are human beings taking lives.

Anthony Meoli (36:27):

If people think that it’s not an emotional toll to do that, they’re mistaken. Something that a lot of serial killers have told me that there’s only so much soul that they have and eventually it’s gone and they start making mistakes. And here this was a physical, Lee fell asleep on the watch when he should have been awake. If they had been listening to the radio like they should have been like he was, he would have known that the APB had been out for the license plate and they would have changed plates and never gotten, at least not gotten caught that night. It’s my professional opinion that by themselves they would not have committed these crimes, but together they made for a perfect duo. We’ve seen this before many times where by themselves they both have animosity. They both have maybe some tendencies towards extreme violence. One of them may or may not possess some type of mental disorder. We see that time and time again. Bonnie and Clyde are a perfect example of this.

Speaker 15 (37:31):

Investigators learned more about Muhammad and Malvo’s relationship at Muhammad’s trial in Maryland in 2006. After being questioned by prosecutors, Malvo was cross-examined by the defense and Muhammad was defending himself, so the pair came face to face for the first time since they were arrested. This would also be the last time they interacted. Muhammad began by questioning Malvo about the period when he first arrived in Washington state. Here are excerpts read by voice actors.

Voice Actor John Muhammad (38:05):

Can you tell us who Mary Marez is?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (38:08):

She’s a white lady who was your girlfriend at the time.

Voice Actor John Muhammad (38:12):

Can you tell us about Alan Archer?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (38:16):

Mr. Archer runs the shelter. He’s a very kind, compassionate guy.

Voice Actor John Muhammad (38:20):

Okay. Do you remember me, you and Don Holland sitting down at his table and his wonderful wife cooking dinner?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (38:29):


Voice Actor John Muhammad (38:30):

Okay. So the first four people that you met pertain to my life in the state of Washington was white?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (38:39):


Voice Actor John Muhammad (38:40):

You mentioned, I called a white man, the devil.

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (38:44):

That is true.

Voice Actor John Muhammad (38:45):

This is true. And how close was me and Mary?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (38:48):

You were close.

Voice Actor John Muhammad (38:49):

Okay. Mr. Malvo, you mentioned that you was indoctrinated, did not the experts in your trial state that Malvo was indoctrinated by Muhammad?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (39:00):


Voice Actor John Muhammad (39:01):

Let me ask you something. Do you know what indoctrination is?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (39:05):


Voice Actor John Muhammad (39:06):

Okay. What is it?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (39:11):

Indoctrination is a process under which the person who came under influence is brought to do things he wouldn’t have done on his own.

Voice Actor John Muhammad (39:20):

So a person, according to your definition, a person can be indoctrinated to do what is right. Isn’t that correct?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (39:30):


Voice Actor John Muhammad (39:31):

Sorry, I didn’t hear you. Yes.

Speaker 14 (39:33):

He heard the answer.

Voice Actor John Muhammad (39:34):

Your Honor, she can’t tell me what I heard with my own ears. Is it your testimony that one of the reasons why you were attracted to John Allen Muhammad was because the way I treated the children was the way that you wanted to be treated?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (39:48):


Voice Actor John Muhammad (39:49):

Okay. And then did I not treat you that way?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (39:52):

For a period of time, yes.

Voice Actor John Muhammad (39:54):

Okay. Before the period of time you were talking about pertaining to these crimes, did I not cheat you that way?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (40:00):


Voice Actor John Muhammad (40:01):

Okay. Why did John, Selena and Taalibah call you their brother? Can you answer that for me?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (40:08):

You sat them down and introduced me as part of the family.

Voice Actor John Muhammad (40:11):

Do you remember the time happening in Antigua that Andrea, my girlfriend, almost drowned?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (40:18):

Yes. You were off the island.

Voice Actor John Muhammad (40:20):

And before I left, who did I give the responsibility of those children, who I hold dear and near to my heart?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (40:27):


Voice Actor John Muhammad (40:28):

Correct. And something happened when I was gone, a gentlemen almost drown. Is that correct?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (40:34):


Voice Actor John Muhammad (40:35):

And Andrea went into the water trying to save him. Is that correct?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (40:38):


Voice Actor John Muhammad (40:39):

She almost drowned?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (40:41):


Voice Actor John Muhammad (40:42):

And Selena called for her big brother. Who was her big brother?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (40:46):


Voice Actor John Muhammad (40:47):

And when her big brother came, her big brother pulled Andrea out of the water, didn’t he?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (40:51):


Voice Actor John Muhammad (40:53):

And then Andrea told you something that you didn’t know at the time. My son little John was in that water and you went back and got him, didn’t you?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (41:00):


Voice Actor John Muhammad (41:01):

Why? Why?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (41:06):

Because I love him.

Voice Actor John Muhammad (41:08):

Isn’t it true if you wasn’t there, that boy would have lost his life?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (41:11):


Voice Actor John Muhammad (41:12):

Okay. So what I asked you to do was to take care of my family. Did I indoctrinate you?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (41:19):

Then, no.

Speaker 15 (41:21):

Muhammad spent much of his cross examination trying to twist Malvo’s words to cast doubt on his testimony. At times, it felt like he was giving the rest of the world a glimpse of how he might’ve bullied young Lee Boyd Malvo into submission with his words. But now, four years later, 21-year-old Lee Boyd Malvo was better equipped to fight back.

Voice Actor John Muhammad (41:43):

You stated that you went into the Bullseye store?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (41:45):


Voice Actor John Muhammad (41:46):

Okay. When you went into the store, was it people in the store?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (41:50):

Oh yes.

Voice Actor John Muhammad (41:50):

I noticed you said that quick. Was there a reason you responded so fast to that?

Speaker 14 (41:54):


Voice Actor John Muhammad (41:56):

Was there a person at the front door, a cashier or something like that?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (42:00):


Voice Actor John Muhammad (42:00):

And was there other people, customers everywhere else in the store?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (42:04):


Voice Actor John Muhammad (42:05):

You had a case?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (42:07):

A gun case.

Voice Actor John Muhammad (42:07):

Okay. How big was it?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (42:10):

It was big enough for the weapon to fit in it.

Voice Actor John Muhammad (42:12):

Okay. Now take us through exactly what you did.

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (42:15):

I came in and according to the plan, once both the security guards were distracted, I picked up the weapon, break it down, the case is already opened, put it in, close it and walk out.

Voice Actor John Muhammad (42:27):

You mentioned earlier that the case was long enough to contain a weapon. Is that correct?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (42:31):


Voice Actor John Muhammad (42:32):

And then you also stated that you broke the weapon down to fit into a case. Can you tell us why?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (42:37):

It was on a bi-pod. I had to break the bi-pod down to put it in there.

Voice Actor John Muhammad (42:41):

And then you walked out the door?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (42:43):


Voice Actor John Muhammad (42:43):

Okay. Let me ask you something. Did you have an invisible suit on?

Speaker 14 (42:46):


Voice Actor John Muhammad (42:48):

Let’s go to the bus stuff. Do you remember stating that we also went to Hawaii?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (42:52):

I said that.

Voice Actor John Muhammad (42:53):

How long did it take for us to get to Hawaii on a bus?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (42:56):

That was a lie.

Voice Actor John Muhammad (42:57):

That was a lie. Okay. You also stated we went to Alaska, is that correct?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (43:02):


Voice Actor John Muhammad (43:03):

How long did it take for us to get to Alaska on a bus?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (43:07):

That was a lie.

Voice Actor John Muhammad (43:08):

That was a lie, too. Okay. You also stated that we went to Maine, correct?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (43:13):

I remember Alaska and Hawaii.

Voice Actor John Muhammad (43:16):

Do you remember Sam Walker asking you where did you learn how to shoot and you said Alaska, Maine and Hawaii?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (43:23):

I said a lot of things I can’t recall. I can’t recall details of my statements.

Voice Actor John Muhammad (43:28):

So you say a lot of things in your statements, just like you said a lot in the courtroom right now …

Speaker 14 (43:32):


Voice Actor John Muhammad (43:32):

… That wasn’t true.

Speaker 14 (43:33):


Speaker 15 (43:37):

After Muhammad finished his cross-examination, prosecutors were given another chance to follow up with Malvo.

Speaker 14 (43:44):

I want to specifically ask you about some of the questions that Mr. Muhammad asked you. He asked you some questions about Mary Marez, the woman that he had a relationship with.

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (43:53):


Speaker 14 (43:54):

How did he make you feel about white people at that point in time?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (43:57):


Speaker 14 (43:59):

You still feel that way now?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (44:00):


Speaker 14 (44:02):

Mr Muhammad asked you a lot of questions, Mr. Malvo, about whether you saw a difference in the way he treated you and his own sons. Well, what was the difference that you perceived in the way John Allen Muhammad treated his biological sons and the way he treated you, Mr Malvo?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (44:17):

Mr. Muhammad did not use any of his children to murder other people.

Speaker 14 (44:22):

When you talked to detectives in Fairfax prior to the trial, you hadn’t heard the testimony of the witnesses, so where did you get the information?

Voice Actor Lee Malvo (44:30):

I was there, he was there, and I knew what we both did.

Speaker 14 (44:35):

That’s all the questions I have, Your Honor.

Speaker 15 (44:55):

Muhammad was found guilty again and was sentenced to life without parole. He continued to fight against his Virginia death penalty sentences-

PART 3 OF 4 ENDS [00:45:04]

Speaker 16 (45:03):

He continued to fight against his Virginia death penalty sentences, but he soon ran out of appeals. His execution was set for November 10th, 2009. Here’s Paul LaRuffa, a survivor shot outside his restaurant in Clinton, Maryland.

Paul LaRuffa (45:17):

I didn’t want to go to his execution and I wrote a memo which basically said, “I understand you folks being there. I understand your need to be there. I don’t have a need to see him die and I don’t want him to take another day out of my life.” I’m sorry at any death, but I think if anybody deserves the death penalty, it was him.

Speaker 16 (45:44):

Here’s Cheryl Witts, the daughter of Jerry Taylor, who Malvo confessed to shooting on the golf course in Arizona. Witts was interviewed right before Muhammad’s execution.

Cheryl Witts (45:54):

Anybody that can do the things that he did, brainwash a child into killing all the people that he did, do all this to all the victims, the families, his own family. He’s an animal. He’s a monster.

Speaker 17 (46:08):

What was your view of the death penalty prior to this tragedy?

Cheryl Witts (46:12):

Well, I really wasn’t for the death penalty because I just didn’t believe it’s going to bring the victim back. But, after he killed my father, I knew that if he got the death penalty, I would be sitting in this chair and watching the execution. I just, I have to witness that. I need to witness that.

Speaker 16 (46:35):

In Virginia, the execution room or death chamber as it’s also known, contains a cross shaped bed with arms made to facilitate injections. Two walls of the room have mirrors, one-way mirrors behind which are rooms full of spectators, one for victims and their families. Another for lawyers, press and Mohammed’s family. Mohammed’s ex-wife, Mildred, says her children wanted to see Muhammad before the execution.

Mildred Muhammad (47:03):

They said, “Mom, we really want to talk to dad.” So I called the warden. The warden said I would need to put their names on the docket and that John would have to agree to see them. He said, “But, Ms. Muhammad, your children are under 18.” He said, “So that means you have to come with them.” Oh, no sir. I will find somebody else to bring them, but I am not going in there.

Mildred Muhammad (47:31):

But, John would not put their names on the docket. So, we get to the day of the execution, and the media is reporting all of his visitors, one of his sons and some other family members. So my son goes, “So, why all of them are there and we’re not there, mom? What’s up with that?” I said, “I am not going to make excuses for your dad. It’s his choice.” So his attorney said, “I’m going to call you before he goes into the chamber, make sure that your children are right there so he can talk to them.” So as we’re watching TV, I see the gentleman coming to the microphone. I say, “Yeah, this is not going to be good.”

Speaker 18 (48:19):

At 8:58, John Muhammad was walked into the death chamber. He kind of staggered in. He was in a blue shirt, blue denim jeans. He’s kind of being held up by corrections officers. He looked around, mostly to the floor, he’s very clean cut. They strapped him in by his legs first, then his waist, then his arms. Then the blue curtain was shut. Now, Department of Corrections officials tell us the blue curtain was shut, so most of the people in the back, administering the execution, they can protect their identity. At 9:06, they pulled the curtain back. You could see Muhammad strapped there. They asked him right after that, Mr. Muhammad, do you have any last words? Didn’t say anything. At 9:07, you could see him twitching a lot. You could see him blinking a lot and you could see his breathing increase. At 9:08, he sat there. He was there motionless. At 9:11 PM Mohammed was pronounced dead.

Nelson Rivera (49:24):

I went to that execution.

Speaker 16 (49:27):

This is Nelson Rivera, whose wife, Lori Ann Lewis-Rivera, was shot and killed on October 3rd, 2002.

Nelson Rivera (49:35):

With the pain and all the anger that I have, I thought that was going to release me. I was feeling good at that moment, but just to see him, his attitude to not say anything to the families. That guy was a monster. He doesn’t deserve to be here. It was too easy for him. They just that injection to him, that was too easy. For what he did to all the victims. He didn’t give them an opportunity to be with their families, to enjoy their kids.

Mildred Muhammad (50:15):

The gentleman coming to the microphone said, “John Allen Muhammad has expired 9:11.” And my children went three different directions.

Speaker 16 (50:26):

For all of Mohammed’s claims that he loved his children, the children that he told Lee he was desperate to see again. Muhammad didn’t speak to his children when he had the opportunity.

Mildred Muhammad (50:37):

My son went by himself and I said, “Honey, are you okay?” He said, “I’m good, ma. I’m good.” So then I went to Taalibah, she was on the floor screaming, crying uncontrollably. I picked her up, cradled her. Go over to Selena. She’s whimpering on the sofa. I said, “Honey, you okay?” “No mommy, I’m not okay.” I said, “Okay, tell me what’s going on.” “Do you understand that daddy was going to kill you?” “Yep. I understand that completely.” “He didn’t love us, mom. He didn’t love us if he was going to kill you. I hate him.”

Mildred Muhammad (51:19):

I said, “No, you don’t. You don’t hate him.” “Don’t tell me how I feel.” I said, “Okay. He’s gone now. You got to let it go. It’s going to kill you. Got to let it go.” And she looked up at me and I knew what she was looking for. She was looking for some type of emotion that I had because her dad had just been executed. I had absolutely nothing. When he said to me, “You have become my enemy and as my enemy, I will kill you.” I severed every emotional tie to him. To me, he was a stranger being executed.

Speaker 16 (52:08):

Why would Muhammad put his own children through the terror of the DC attacks? Why did he go to Prince George’s County, Maryland, the County where they lived to shoot a boy the same age as his son, John? Some suggests that Muhammad didn’t just want to kill Mildred. He wanted to terrorize her. And what happened to his children was just collateral damage. After all, Muhammad’s need for violence seemed to override the love he claimed to feel for Malvo as well. Muhammad told Malvo that he loved him, but then let Malvo fall on the sword after they were arrested. Criminologist, Anthony Meole says, Lee reflected on this years later.

Anthony Meole (52:51):

The interesting thing about the shootings, and this is really somewhat fascinating, all of the shots that were taken outside of the car were done by Lee. So, John purposely put Lee in the view of the public when they already had a sniper roost inside the Capris set up. All the shots taken inside the car were done by John when he was fully covered and not able to be identified.

Lee Boyd Malvo (53:18):

If anything was to be done where there was a chance of getting caught or risk of getting shot at in the process, because this has happened several times. We went to rob someone, they were armed and I got shot at. And I had to kill them in the process. He was nowhere to be found. He was somewhere hiding. In the DC shootings, if there was anything could be done where there was major risk, he had me do it.

Anthony Meole (53:40):

If he was so caring about his son, so to say, why put Lee out in a position where he was at such risk? The calls to the police are Lee Boyd Malvo’s voice. So, it’s very interesting that John almost purposely put Lee as the shooter and almost could have made a case for himself saying, “Well, this guy did all the shootings. It wasn’t me. Here’s his voice on tape.”

Speaker 16 (54:08):

Malvo’s lawyers also felt that Muhammad may have just been using Malvo for the crimes.

Speaker 20 (54:14):

Lee was under this misbelief that they’re going to have this utopia, and John Muhammad was saying, we’re going to get the government to pay for it. I mean, what person would rationally think that’s going to happen? But, a kid who’s indoctrinated that’s following this leader, believes it. I don’t know what was going to happen to Lee after he got his kids back. I don’t know, because Lee would then eventually realize there wasn’t this $10 million from the government that’s going to pay for this utopia. Maybe John Muhammad was going to kill Lee.

Speaker 16 (54:42):

With Muhammad gone, all we have now is Malvo’s story. When we began this season, a Supreme Court case was set to decide whether Malvo would be eligible for parole, but the question of whether Malvo deserves to be in prison has gone from the theoretical to the concrete. Due to recent developments that we’ll discuss next episode, Lee Boyd Malvo could one day walk the streets again. Malvo will be eligible for parole as early as 2022.

Speaker 16 (55:18):

Next time on Monster: DC Sniper.

Speaker 20 (55:22):

Obviously, our goal is to do the best we can for him and you know what he wants. He wants to be out and be able to live his life.

Lee Boyd Malvo (55:28):

I had dreams at one point. I wanted to do great things.

Speaker 20 (55:34):

Lawyers would argue that absent Muhammad, he wouldn’t have committed these crimes at all, and that what good is it to warehouse him in a Supermax facility for the next 60 years.

Speaker 19 (55:45):

We end up always looking at these fantastic cases like Malvo. That’s not how most of these cases go down. Most of these cases are a heavy trigger finger, an armed robbery gone bad, stupid, stupid behavior that tragically results in a stupid, stupid outcome.

Speaker 20 (56:02):

I mean, you could re-sentence him all you want. It doesn’t take away from the fact that eight people at least will never be brought back.

Speaker 21 (56:11):

At the time I was thinking, well, he should be locked up forever and ever. Now, I’d like to kind of see whether or not he’s really changed.

Speaker 16 (56:24):

Monster: DC Sniper is a 15 episode podcast hosted by Tony Harris and produced by iHeartRadio and Tenderfoot TV. Matt Frederick and Alex Williams are Executive Producers on behalf of iHeartRadio. Alongside producers, Trevor Young, Ben Keybrick and Josh Thane. Peyton Lindsey and Donald Albright are Executive Producers on behalf of Tenderfoot TV. Alongside producers, Meredith Stedman and Christina Dana. Original music is by Makeup and Vanity set. If you haven’t already, be sure to check out the first two seasons. Atlanta Monster and Monster: The Zodiac Killer. If you have questions or comments, email us at monster@iHeartmedia.com or you can call us at 1-833-285-6667. Thanks for listening.